But anyway, EOF for that angle. I have staff that are lvl 60 and get paid as much as folks that are lvl 62. Regarding the comment about the ability to own a room - This is a very good self-calibration technique. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. Just ensure that you do the absolute best in whatever is thrown at you and promotion will take care of itself. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. But on balance mgrs at MS get things right a lot more often than they get them wrong or we wouldnt be one of the most highly capitalized companies in the history of biz. I've been at the same level for 3.5 years (since I joined MSFT), and while I spent three of those in a group where almost noone at all got promoted (a group which has since essentially dissolved), I'm concerned that my level stagnation reflects poorly on me, even though I've been the major contributor on products that have earned 10x my total compensation package for MSFT. Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. First, they are moving *to* something that they think fits them better -- and bringing an enthusiasm for the new position to go with the better fit. If they can, pay attention: They don't even know the area as well as your superiors, and you need to spend more time covering your bases. right? I spend a long time a 61 about 4.5 years mostly because I changed groups alot. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. Like another poster, I was a 64 who hit the "65 wall" after 10 years at MS. Excuses and griping and bemoaning aren't the stuff that L63 contributors are made of. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. He/she and you should know exactly what you need to do to get to the next level. It's not easy. My likely response would be "congratulations! I changed 3 groups at Microsoft. SAP, Go to company page Senior finance leader with several years of experience as a member of executive teams within large Australian blue chip and global multi-national companies with broad and diverse background and wide-ranging experience. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. How do you make sure you do a good job but not too good of a job.Also higher levels will tend to require you to do things you may not like. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. So I cultivate relationships with my manager's peers; their support helps tremendously. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Microsoft senior leadership team under Satya Nadella Tech Here are the most important execs at Microsoft under Satya Nadella Jordan Novet @jordannovet Key Points Microsoft's executive team. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Your own work is part of the goal. Seek out local critique before you approach people above you. 3. Strategy and Product Leader for an omni-channel team encompassing blended physical-digital experiences that combine personalized services with customer relationship strengthening across 400- centers. By persist, I do not mean being happy to be at the same <63 level for 3+ years for exmaple. Do a brownbag for your VP level group, record it and send out the link to everyone. Is this confirmed? Say B.In a perfect case, B will have 10 devs to transfer to A but when that happen B will be left with 5 testers and 2 PMs. You may not need them to get from 59->60, but if you're good at them, it'll make your rise much quicker. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. It's a $1,000-per-minute conversation - you should always have those. I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Let's Hear it for the Boy! That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. I am going through some finanical hardships and is getting the level changed is the only way for a salary increase? check the ego out, ensure that people around you (the whole team is successful), create the best results possible and your promotion wont be far away. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Additional pay could include bonus, stock, commission, profit sharing or tips. All of my experience is in the product development groups at MS (dev/test/pm) so my observations may not apply elsewhere. My manager and I had a plan to influenc that person and it worked. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. Judson Althoff. Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. Your best bet is to help your boss get a promotion. I think that a compentent dev not a superstar, who follows your advice should make it to 63. Levels 57 and 58 are reserved for non-permanent employees and Levels 59 and 60 are reserved for New Graduates. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. We've negotiated thousands of offers and regularly achieve $30k+ (sometimes $300k+) increases. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? You should leave. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. At 63, he has to be the one who tells me what the next thing for the product should be. The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). FY08 review: "limited". He himself is principal for quite sometime. Without soft skills, you can't make 64 and certainly no chance at 65.I've seen many people transfer into MCS, level up, and then transfer out basically using it as a boost. You're cursed for life.2. I was probably at risk of topping out at level 62 or 63 at one point but worked hard to change my brand and good things happened as a result. .css-1uhsr4o{margin-right:8px;}Get Paid, Not Played. Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. It's a matter of human nature for most people not to want someone else to pass them up. And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! I dont know why this is the case. In this article, we have explained the Job levels at Microsoft which starts at SDE and goes up to Technical Fellow. Yes, "soft skills" count. The point here is that I have more than once seen folks that were very talented and super stars get bumped for someone less talented but more vocal. I take a creative approach to accelerating business transformation as a . This will only lead us to a healthy and balanced distribution of levels across genders. For example, see http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/learning_curve.html. Levels are a bit easier to achieve in MCS. Great post. We discussed progress at least once a month. I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. If you find yourself in this spot - get a good external mentor to help you manage through it if you don't feel you can have this conversation with your manager.4. >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Up or out as they say.I found a niche I was happy in. VP has to find the 10 devs from some other less attractive project. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. Never "threaten" to leave or waive external offers in my face unless you're fully prepared to be escorted out of the building that minute. That's why Microsoft is pissing away the monopoly that you inherited from IBM. Strong operations professional with a Master's Degree focused in Project Management from Shaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto . I'm interested in hearing your stories of success, mentorship, and turning a career that was off-path back on-track. It's a knife fight to 63. I have seen people turn it around. One thing I learned early is that the manager who says "I fought for you, sorry" is really saying "I'm too weak to make the case." Remember: what worked for some other person, at some other time, may not work today. But the people in the team are below 65. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. However, the results show that the vast majority of dev/test/pm will make level 63 and in a reasonable timeframe. Really inspiring. I say this because I have seen really smart people shunned because of 'house-on-fire' attitudes even when they were dead right. ask around for a good mentor or go to our internal mentor site to be matched with a mentor http://mentor/Mentor/user/mymentoring.asp. What worked well and what really horked things up for you? If it is "Absolutely!" I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. And as my experience shows, many teams do not even staff a senior. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role. It sounds trite, but it's true. as many others posters said: if you are worry too much about promotion chances are you will keep worrying. Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. Great Post! So here's my 2 cents:Read this now and have a game plan for your 1:1s to tee up a deeper discussion at MYCD. This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. Biggest key for me was knowing when to leave a bad management situation and team. How long can someone stay at the same level before they get blacklisted? I would love to be above 60much less 63. Know Your Worth. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room. Help Your Manager (and your team) Be Successful: No one has more influence over whether you get promoted than your immediate mgr. It going to be more about survival in the current business climate. "Shock and awe awaits" is correct. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. While I lost a few people who drove great results in that level, overall it was good for their career and also MS over time. It doesnt matter if the system is fair or not. Often this is where a perceived negative attitude or lack of soft skills will hurt you the most.Your immediate boss can often look beyond that to the benefit you bring to the organization - mostly because it also directly benefits him or her. It is true you can always do that, go to Google, go to ABC, or whatever. But my manager is communicating to me that it is very hard and I am likely to show patience for another year or two.I do not know how to confirm this without looking like whining. There are so many reasons why things didn't happen in a given review cycle. my recommendation is you take the offer if you've gone this far. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. Know where you are in the stack and understand how you will rank higher next year.BTW, forgot to mention I was a manager for the second half of my career. At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. Ill answer first question later in this comment. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . Moved to a role where I could see headroom and also where I could set specific commits and accountabilities with the GM, which I then exceeded and moved to L63 in '04. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. SQL is one of the groups that has consistently delivered quality and growth. Not so at L63. . As long as that's the case, I doubt anything would change.The method that this is done is troubling also. Weirder sh*t has happened before. That's the easy way out. But if you think you should be promoted and your manager doesn't, you shouldn't sit and seethe -- you must understand what it will take. Get FREE domain for 1st year and build your brand new site. In my org the cut is 70% on promos. After all, if you think you are already ready, and your manager doesn't, there is probably some way you can improve that you don't understand -- this is something you want to figure out.6. Some are exceptional at one, and passable at others. Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length. Microsoft, Go to company page Can we talk about the recent hiring of a new OSG head, as well as ideas on how to fix online? A mentor helps tremendously. (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. I don't yet have any insight into what it might take to become a Partner, so I won't comment on that. But coming back is a HUGE IF, since I can't see ever going back the that cesspool of stupid. Here is a nice place to start :-)http://guestgame.com/. If I'm going to be late delivering something, give folks advance notice.3. * Leaving the company - oh, the all too easy escape: I have seen that mentioned in quite a few comments. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. senior director - $446k . L62 is supposed is own the room of L60s, L65 own the room of L63s, and so on. After that I got 3 levels in 3 years and now at level 64. L63 takes a bit longer but is also fast. I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change. Let's compare answers answer is: your boss. I am a troll. Its, actually, quite a short list. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. Satya Nadella. They came from "hot" product teams. I came in at 58 (9) and having been through a) I wish I had gone through b). Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers. There's a need to ooze authority in a way that is comforting to the person above you responsible for your career. When someone else is waiting on you for something, don't be the reason they can't get their shit done.4. By contrast, most directors don't have their own budgets, but need approvals from their VP to do just about anything. Got two promotions - still level 60If you really got promoted twice then you would have advanced 2 levels.Either you didn't actually get promoted, or someone told you lies. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. The good thing in most teams here is that if you persist, you will get there. Maybe." And I'm hiring, yes, in this economy. :)Then, over the next 2 years, I learned the magic of 65: it's not just about playing *well* with others, it's about making every team you work with great and helping them do their best work. And your list of bullet points on qualities of a 63-er is pretty much the short list I have boiled it down to. Aren't those the things you are best at? VPs may well number in the hundreds at a huge place . "I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65. Now it's up to me to do whatever it takes to make *them* great, even if it doesn't benefit my product directly. So once again, a big part of your job is learning how to become a ninja at firguring out what your management wants from you -- even when they haven't articulated it in any kind of measurable way -- and then doing it. Don't discount the power of a mgmt chain that believes in you. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" It's an excellent product. How you perform in interview is going to matter on whether you get proper mapping or not. Now a VP at a small cap (and growing, yes in this economy) company. If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. Stop fighting which is where mapped. Ready? ?I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. Bottom line is this: It's very easy to find imperfections. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. . You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. Ask any old mainframer what it was like to be an IBM customer back in the day. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did in some ways. YES, there are people who are awful at all three and still succeed. Got two promotions - still level 60. I am currently going to school which should help the moves to a better position. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".The one other thing that helped me go from L59 through >L64 was an absolute dedication to the strongest leaders, one level at a time. A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page Just like a lot of folks have a fetish to be managers even when it is against their natures.Having said this, consider which is better: a) Rushing through the levels and to be stuck in 64 for ages (to be Kim'd is especially painful here) - think Sarah Palin orb) Going through the levels at a healthy pace, getting far deep into the salary ranges that will assure higher pay when the new levels come. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. To change Microsoft so that it is small and efficient, and therefore more in line with your thinking?Are you changing your stance because you're leaving the 'hoi polloi' behind? Do you know why? If you go looking for those problems though, you better be prepared to deliver. Yet, when you have 2 or 3 offers at the end of very hard interview loops, which one are you going to choose: the team that listens to HR or the team that listens to the market? Thoughts? Any idea on when is this going to change? jcr said >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. work on your visibility. My best guess is that you think it should be await. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all. All you have to do is look at the level distribution, there is a large dropoff in positions at 65. Its usually comes down to do it and be unhappy or leave. They will have thought this out. And to your skip level. You will not know the difference. mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msft. Risk and return are related. Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. It may be that the policy is to do transparent leveling but it's no one's job to go through and make sure they're up to date. Help make it more accurate by adding yours. Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salary levels ranges from 63 (SDE Lead) upto 80 (Corporate VP), with 80 (Corporate VP) level earning average salary of $4851k along with $3675k worth of stock options. If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". That's the wall you need to talk about, but the discussion would be very different than the L63 bump.And after 5+ years at L64, I finally just left. I've seen some extremely senior developers propose solutions to problems, but be totally unconvincing. Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months.
Fishing At Whitewater Center,
Psi Upsilon Syracuse Hazing,
Articles S